Two-Hand Frost DPS Suggestion

Yes, it's me again. With another suggestion. This is just a suggestion and fully open to change.

Two-Hand Frost DK Suggestion

New Talent

Shattering Blows. Possible replacement for Might of the Frozen Wastes/ Addendum To MotFW.

When Frost Vulnerability reaches 5 stacks on your enemy, your Obliterate and Frost Strike abilities have a 5/ 10/ 15% to cause a Shattering Blow, which causes you to hit for (AP*2.5) frost damage and grant the Death Knight 10% strength for 10 seconds.

In addition, it has an AoE component to it possibly.

With just one enemy, all the damage hits it. But if more than one enemy is there, it is divided amongst them, as if the enemy shattered and the shards are hitting the others.

Now, I realize the mechanic of granting 10% strength makes it so much like RotFC that it should be indistinguishable but the difference is there. With Dual-Wield frost weapons granting close to the same amount of strength as found on 2h. I speak relatively.

Two Lava Spines grant 292 strength whilst an Akirus grants 341 strength. a 49 strength difference.

Now with RotFC on Akirus, you get the +15% str buff and self-heal.

BUT!

With two dual-weapons, that difference is annihilated entirely by Rune of Razorice and RotFC on your two weapons since you're doing 10% extra frost damage with Howling Blast, Frost Strike and diseases.

But the Shattering Blows idea/ talent/ addendum would add some difference to 2h whilst also ensuring Rune of Razorice get's SOME use as 2h frost.

Now, whilst a dual-wield frost COULD take this talent, if it was added as an addendum to MotFW then they'd be passing up some other very choice talents. It could be modified to be dependent on a 2h weapon though.

Designed to add a Blood-Caked Blade dynamic to the Frost Tree, this talent would open up the possibility of Frost DK's utilizing Rune of Razorice over Fallen Crusader, allow for improved damage with 2H, add some difference between 2h and dual-wield frost.
The changes already on the ptr will have 2h frost at the top of the dps builds (assuming they can get blood of the north working), with the extremely different gearing setup it uses to DW now.

Why would this be necessary again?

Edit: Also i doubt the str uptime on your suggestion would then equal RoFC, meaning most would still use it
That's debatable Avenging.

The extra 10% frost damage from Frost Vulnerability combined with the 10% str boost would mean theoretically more damage.
k, your talking about dropping 5% str, 30+% of the time and adding a random damage component as well as the 2% approx frost dam boost to overall(assuming ~40% overall frost dam which is usually accepted in non aoe situations) as well as shortening the str buff (RoFC is 15% for 15secs and to which you didn't show any argument as to what the uptime of your own suggestion would be)
That's my napkin math theory reading it

Also your dw argument is flawed, any dw worth his weight will drop a point in butchery and 2 in virulence and fill it from the current top dps build (which i don't use btw). As Dw's stack mastery over haste it favors them far more......................

now that said would you care to show how your last statement theoretically works out to more dps other than just statements plz?

sorry if i come across harsh it's been a long week, but at this stage it looks too complicated to get right and balanced imo
A total of 10% increased frost damage from Frost Strike and Howling Blast. So whilst you may lose the extra 5% strength from RotFC, you gain the extra 10% frost damage from Frost Vulnerability.

So take me for example.

RotFC with me as dual wield will give 626 strength with a base strength of 4179.

1252 Attack Power from dual-wield RotFC proc, non raid buffed.

Shattering Blows would give me 417 strength. Difference of 207 strength which equates to 414 AP.

834 AP from Shattering Blows proc.

418 AP difference between dual-wield and shattering blows, without taking into account Frost Vulnerability.

Now, let's say Shattering Blows procs and you get 417 strength. Next you have to factor in the frost vulnerability. So say a 30k crit of HB becomes 33k.

This is all just basic math I worked out though.

I'm not entirely sure as to the proc rate, it could be increased up to 33%
interesting
Exactly, Sateda. Frost damage is the core of the frost spec so it seems a crying shame that Rune of Razorice has its only use in dual-wield frost. The one rune that was seemingly designed exclusively for frost has 0 use with 2h frost.

Plus, with mastery and Frost Vuln, the instant damage component of Razorice will hit for more.

Gargantuan Blast DOES sound good, I will admit. Warriors have Colossus Smash or whatever it is. But perhaps the hallmark of frost is that weapons merely serve to amplify the frost damage quotient of our attacks.

Perhaps...

Fury of Northrend

Each frost damage attack you deal increases the stacking benefit of Rune of Razorice, up to 25 stacks.

It'd be on-use with a 2-3 min CD.

I also had an idea for an execute-type move for DK's.

Repudiate Life
Variant 1
Consumes all runic power and sets all rune cooldowns back to the start but does damage equal to 6 runes x 130 runic power = 780% weapon damage in a cone towards the target, dealing damage to all caught in it.

Repudiate Life
Variant 2
Same as above but point-black aoe like Blast Wave around the DK.

I'm assuming that the 10% Frost Vulnerability thing is to lure us into using RoR > RotFC, and hence the 10% Strength boost?

Yeah bottom line is he wants to have 2h pigeonholed into Razorice by building this talent around it's debuff. As described it would be fully stacked to start the procs rolling, which can become an issue in itself on highly mobile and target switch fights ( such as omnitron )

Still not convinced as so far he hasn't factored in the loss of on his base numbers for everything in his above math ( the 5% str loss in the proc) to compare against the damage gain with frost buff, or addressed my point on the fact that it would be a bigger boost for dw than he believes.
Oh, I know that. Unless the talent was designed to only work with 2h weapons. DW frost gets to strike with 2 weapons and apply the frost debuff quicker whereas Shattering Blows would mean slower application but heavier attacks.

And true, I haven't done the math. I hate math. Blizz can do the math, I'll sit here and be the think-tank :)

And true, movement fights would hurt Shattering Blows heavily. But let's say you save up 130 runic power, or even 100 as the movement begins. Since Frost Strike can be performed without regard to weapon attack speed, you can still build the stacks within a reaonable amount of time.
True. But let me ask you this, Sat.

In PvP, how often would you be able to build 5 stacks of Frost Vulnerability without either already killing them or being killed yourself?

And quite frankly, if someone is tanking in PvP and you hit them with that, all the better. XD

And target dummies are baseline really. No movement needed, full buffs, no deaths, etc etc.

And as for landing that massive a hit...that's all dependant on the RNG and if it was turned into a theoretical AoE suggestion like I mentioned, that would mean in clusters, it could be diminished.
Too true.

But as I said earlier, this is nothing more than a suggestion to create a viable difference between dual-wield and two-handed frost dps instead of, in all reality, nothing more than a graphic difference atm.

If Blizz wants to take this idea and run with it, I'd be more than happy to give up any and all rights to the idea.

If Oblit was changed to do Frost Damage as well as physical damage, then RoR would become a possible replacement.
Oh, it may be fine Griptard. But this is still a suggestion, to make more of a difference.
Kraka-bump!

I've played around with 2h frost in 4.1 but it still feels like something is...missing. It isn't as brutal as it could be.